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Massood interviews New York filmmaker Spike Lee. Among other things, Lee discusses his movie, "25th Hour," his experience in working with David Benioff and Edward Norton, and his disappointment with the effort made by his distributor, Buena Vista.

Spike Lee, along with Martin Scorsese and Woody Allen, has long been considered a quintessential New York filmmaker. His films are often microcosmic studies of the city's neighborhoods-Bed-Stuy in Do the Right Thing, Harlem and Bensonhurst in Jungle Fever, and the Bronx in Summer of Sam-providing intimate access to the people and places. Lee's films are also part of an ongoing analysis of American race relations. While at first glance they seem to be situation-specific representations of racial and ethnic tensions, the films also refract American cultural life on a macrocosmic scale. The events enacted during a twenty-four-hour period on a Brooklyn block in Do the Right Thing, for instance, parallel those enacted throughout the United States; the names may he changed, Lee's film suggest, hut the stories remain the same.

Like Scorsese and Allen, Lee successfully renders the multiple intricacies of urban experience on screen because he has such an intimate knowledge of New York City-its soaring highs and disheartening lows, all too familiar to longtime urban residents. No film captures this love/hate relationship better than Lee's most recent, 25th Hour.

Based on a novel of the same title by David Benioff, who adapted it for the screen, 25th Hour follows its drug-dealing protagonist, Monty Brogan (Edward Norton), in his movements around the city on his last twenty-four hours of freedom before heading to jail for a seven-year sentence. During this time, Monty bids farewell to his life-long friends, Slattery (Barry Pepper) and Jacob (Philip Seymour Hoffman), his father (Brian Cox), and his girlfriend Naturelle (Rosario Dawson), who may or may not have given him up to the cops. Monty also says goodbye to the city, and his close relationship to his surroundings is communicated in the many scenes in which he maneuvers through Manhattan's parks and streets with Doyle, his dog. To assuage the pain he experiences in leaving, along with the guilt he feels in knowing that he made had choices in his life, Monty strikes out at those around him-first, in distancing himself from Naturelle and, second, in lashing out at the city as a preemptive strike against the inevitable nostalgia he'll feel once he's gone.

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25th Hour is a post-9/11 production, and it reflects that context-very different from the pre-9/11 New York of Benioff's novel, written in 2000. As the film opens, we also know that we are in a different time and space from Lee's previous films, as spectacular long shots of the Manhattan skyline are paired with soaring chords from Terence Blanchard's score. But it's not just any cityscape that's featured; it's a skyline bereft of the World Trade Center. Whereas many recent films shot in the city before 9/11 have erased the towers, they are present in 25th Hour in the form of two pillars of light, New York's "tribute of light," beaming into the night sky and acting as the signifier for our local and global trauma. Lee looks his scarred city in the eye and asks us all, along with him and with Monty, to directly confront the pain. Like the shots of the city opening Woody Alien's Manhattan, the pairing of image and sound celebrates the city. The opening of 25th Hour asks us to love the city despite (and perhaps because of) its scars. That's the love.

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The hate appears later in 25th Hour and just as dramatically as in the film's opening sequence. As Monty begins his last night on the town, he joins his father Joe for a final dinner. At one point, Monty retires to the bathroom to wash his face. Monty's gaze into the bathroom mirror, and at the 'fuck you' graffiti scratched on its surface, triggers a montage sequence organized around the thoughts those words evoke in his mind. Like a similar sequence in Do the Right Thing, no group is left unscathed by Monty's diatribe against the city's various peoples and neighborhoods. The sequence is moving in its sadness, and profoundly disturbing in its anger-directed at New York, at the people behind 9/11, and finally and resolutely at Monty himself. Monty's self-loathing at the end of the sequence tempers this explosion of vitriol and lends a final note of despair to the scene. Many of the people targeted in Monty's diatribe reappear at the end of the film, adding a bittersweet refrain to the earlier outburst and suggesting that Monty ultimately identifies with his diverse community.

The film is buoyed by strong performances from its ensemble cast, including Norton, Pepper, Hoffman, Dawson, Cox, and Anna Paquin. At the end of the day, 25th Hour is Monty's story, and we follow his experiences almost exclusively. This narrative approach provides audiences with a clear understanding of Monty's thoughts and reasoning; we feel his anguish, his disappointment, and his guilt. But this strategy can also result in our wanting more time with the other characters. For example, Naturelle is defined by only the vaguest details; she has no outside interests and her reasons for remaining with Monty are left unexplained. Likewise, Monty's oldest friends, Slattery and Jacob, are underdeveloped, leaving audiences to wonder why they've maintained contact with their friend after so many years and such divergent life choices. Crucially, our almost exclusive link with Monty's perspective shifts near the end of 25th Hour with a monologue in which Joe projects a fantasy future for his son. In Joe's 'what if scenario, Monty heads west rather than to jail. In this brief moment, we glimpse the ways in which Monty's actions have affected the people around him.

25th Hour was produced by Disney, with an eye towards Oscar nominations. The film opened in December on a small number of screens, and it never was given a wide-scale release; at its most visible it was playing on a total of only 460 screens. Once it became clear that 25th Hour would not garner nominations, it quickly disappeared from theaters. In a year when the majority of Oscars went to films set safely in the past-and to genres (the melodrama, the musical) associated with different times-it makes sense that 25th Hour would not appeal to Academy voters. The film is too contemporary, and its often uncomfortable struggle with making sense of the aftermath of September 11 may be too immediate for audiences who would rather avert their eyes from Ground Zero until something covers it up.

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Cineaste spoke with Lee about 25th Hour, his experience working with David Benioff and Edward Norton, and his disappointment with the effort made by his distributor, Buena Vista.-Paula J. Massood

Cineaste; Like dockers, the screenplay for 25th Hour was based upon a novel, with a screenplay written by the author. Can you describe the experience of adapting a work for the screen when the author is part of the project? I know, for example, that you made several modifications to dockers that changed the focus of Richard Price's story. Did you feel a similar impulse with David Benioff's screenplay for 25th Hour?

Spike Lee: There's a big difference between 25th Hour and Clockers because I cowrote Clockers. With Clockers, Martin Scorsese had Universal buy the novel by Richard Price for him to direct. Price wrote the script for Robert De Niro to star. After Price wrote many drafts of the script for De Niro, Scorsese decided for some reason that he didn't want to do it anymore. He decided to do Casino. But Universal had a lot of money invested in the project, so they still wanted to get the film made, and Marty wanted to get it made so he asked me to do it. I was hesitant at first because that subject matter had been mined a lot and the only way I would do it was to change the focus.

Price structured the novel by alternating chapters about Strike and about Rocco throughout. The script I read was clearly a star vehicle for De Niro, and Strike was a minimal character. It was really about guys going through mid-life crisis and that type of stuff. It's not what I wanted to do. I felt that for me to do the film, it had to be-about this young kid Strike. I wanted to get into the psyches of the young black men who are going down a dead-end street of drugs fueled by a lot of gangsta rap stuff. I really wanted to debunk the glamorization of some of the rap, drugs, and gun play. So that's the difference. I wrote a couple of things in 25th Hour, but it in no way compares to the amount of work I did for Clockers. 25th Hour is David Benioff's script.

Cineaste: The novel was published before the events of 9/11, but the film is definitely (and definitively) set in its recent aftermath. Thus far, 25th Hour is one of the few films set in New York City to openly acknowledge the destruction of the World Trade Center. Why did you-or did you-feel compelled to acknowledge the events so directly in the film?

Lee: I felt compelled to do it because I'm a New Yorker; I'm an American; I'm a world citizen. I live here. I grew up here. So this is my home. It's always going to be my home. I felt that it would be a missed opportunity if we did not somehow reflect how the world has changed. That's what we wanted to do.

Cineaste: The scene that seems be receiving criticism for foregrounding 9/11 too much is the one in which Slattery and Jacob discuss Monty's future while standing in front of a window overlooking Ground Zero. I thought the setting worked well with the dialog-the idea of Monty having no future now that he was on his way to jail.

What did you have in mind when you decided to move the scene to that specific location from the novel's West Village apartment?

Lee: We knew going in that there would be people who'd dislike dealing with something like the reference to Ground Zero. But that's no reason not to do it. It's easily conceivable that someone who works on Wall Street might live there, so it made sense to me that he could live right next to Ground Zero. It didn't bother me at all. I think it works.

Cineaste: The film has been described as a 'love song' to New York City. What are your thoughts on this?

Lee: I think all my films that take place in New York City are that, but I think it's much more pronounced now because this is a post-9/11 New York City.

Cineaste: The scene that best captures Monty's-and all New Yorkers'-aching love and hate for the city is, ironically, the 'fuck' montage that occurs early in the film. It's very powerful.

Lee: If you live here long enough, we've all thought, and hopefully not said, some of those things that Monty says into the mirror.

Cineaste: This sequence also appears in the novel and is surprisingly similar in structure to a scene in Do The Right Thing. Can you explain the ways in which the sequence captures this love/hate relationship with the City, especially in the aftermath of September 11th? And what of its links to your earlier film?

Lee: Well, you'll have to ask David. It's very similar to the novel. It worked before, and we expanded on it here because in Do The Right Thing, we don't cut away to the people who are the victims of the diatribes. When I read the script, the scene wasn't there. I called David up and asked him why, and he said that he wanted it, but it got developed out. I said, "We're putting it back in." There was some resistance from people at Disney who were worried that audiences would not sympathize with a drug dealer, let alone a drug dealer who had these sorts of sympathies. I think it's one of the strongest scenes in the film. With Edward's performance, the way Rodrigo [Prieto] shot it, and with Terence Blanchard's score, it all comes together and works.

Cineaste: It's also important that some of the individuals from the sequence reappear and wave to Monty as he leaves the city near the end of the film.

Lee: That was Edward Norton's idea. He said, 'Spike, why don't we bring these people back at the end?' We put it in the script and David said, 'Damn, I should have used that in the novel! That was really good.' That's the type of actor Edward is. He's always thinking. It was good to bring those people back, and we made sure that, for the most part, they are the people of color. It works as a reprise.

Cineaste: Monty's character is a little less sympathetic in the novel. Was it a decision across the board to make him more sympathetic in the film or did that come out of Norton s performance.

Lee: No, Edward and I did not want to make him sympathetic at all. We did not want to glamorize this guy and we took numerous steps not to glamorize him. Number one, in the novel the ending is very ambiguous about whether he goes to prison or not. We did not want to have that type of ending. We wanted him to be going to the slammer, the hoosegow.

Cineaste: When you have a performer who is charismatic like Norton, is it difficult to have him portray a bad guy?

Lee: The studios have always been known to cast stars in unsympathetic roles. What makes somebody a star? Audiences won't have the same sympathy for James Woods playing Michael Corleone as they do for a Michael Corleone played by Al Pacino. The Corleones are murderers, but they're one of the most beloved families of all time. If you cast people who'll be liked, it's much easier to get away with that stuff.

Cineaste: The cinematography in 25th Hour-like many of your films-has a remarkable texture that captures every detail of its setting, from the cobblestones and bricks of the Upper East Side to the hypersaturated fantasy sequence that closes the film. This was your first time working with Rodrigo Prieto. What did you see in his work that appealed to you for 25th Hour?

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Lee: I saw Amores Perros. My longtime collaborator, Ellen Kuras, was not available. I always work very closely with my D.P., and Ellen and I have been working together for the last four or five years. We had to get somebody else. We were very fortunate to get Rodrigo. I saw Amores Perros; Frida and 8 Mile were not finished. Luckily, I was getting ready to do a big campaign for Kmart. So we shot that together as a way of auditioning each other. We made eight or ten spots, and we really got to know each other. It was good to work with him on something before a feature film. He's a wonderful contributor to 25th Hour.

Cineaste: Do you return to techniques that you've been working with and develop them further? For instance, the fantasy sequence about Monty's future that doses 25th Hour shares similarities in visual style with the flashback sequences in Clockers.

Lee: Someone pointed out to me that the story endings are similar in the two films, with Strike on the train and Monty being driven out of the city. All we're trying to do is really find the best way to tell a story. We're at the service of the story, so we use what we have-the music, the cinematography, the editing, the production design, the costumes. I work with very creative people who add something to what we're trying to do. We had a great cast with Edward, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Barry Pepper-people aren't going to underestimate Barry Pepper anymore-Anna Paquin, Rosario Dawson, the great Brian Cox, and Tony Siragusa, a former NFL player in his first film. I had a lot of fun making this film.

Cineaste: Unlike Do The Right Thing, Jungle Fever, Mo' Better Blues or Summer of Sam, 25th Hour is the first film you've made that hasn't elicited criticism for your characterization of white, ethnic New Yorkers. Do you have any thoughts on why that might be?

Lee: Why are people also saying that this is my best film? I like this film a lot, but to say that this film is better than Do the Right Thing or Malcolm X? People say that. I really have to question that. The first thing I ask is why they think it's better. I'll ask, 'Have you seen Do the Right Thing? Have you seen Malcolm X?' I'm not trying to knock this film. I'm proud of all my films. But when people say that this is the best film I've ever done, they might be saying that this is the most accessible film I've made for them.

Cineaste: Do you think that because you've shifted into 'crossover' films with white leads, you've become more comfortable for the critical establishment? The idea being that people might think you're moving away from 'angry' films.

Lee: No. I think that if you look, there's a lot of anger in 25th Hour. If we wanted to stay in that comfort zone, we wouldn't have included the 9/11 references at all because Disney did not want us to do any of that stuff. That's in line with all the thinking at Sony with Spiderman and all these other films that chose to stick their heads in the sand by removing the World Trade Center buildings. Studios say that they're doing it out of respect for the audience, but I find that hard to believe. I just think they're steering clear of anything that might even remotely impact on the bottom line.

Cineaste: Despite the fact that 25th Hour has powerful writing, performances, and direction, it has been virtually overlooked by the festival and award circuit, except for Terence Blanchard's score. Why do you think this is?

Lee: Here's the interesting thing. This film was made only because Michael Eisner looked at his line-up and saw that Disney didn't have any films that might be considered for an Oscar. They all want to make money, but they also want to send a signal to the creative community that they're interested in making other types of films. So Eisner put out an edict: You've got to find something. Calls went out from the creative executives at Disney; William Morris got me the script; I was interested and Edward was interested. We went to Disney and tried to figure out how much we could make it for. And the film came together fast. It was made for that purpose.

But December is the most crowded time ever for the Oscar push. If you commit to make a film for the Oscars, once it's made you can't leave it dangling out there in the wind. If you think the film will get Oscar consideration, you'll give the box office more attention. But if you don't go ahead with that plan one hundred percent, and get down and dirty and do what Harvey Weinstein does at Miramax, then you can't compete. If you're not willing to go to the mat, you'll get lost. If you don't get the nominations, that's it. We're not at all happy about the way this film was marketed. It opened in five theaters in New York and Los Angeles, and, depending on the reviews and box office, we were to gradually expand.

Cineaste: The film was on 450-460 screens at the height of its release in January 2003, and that was only for a week before it disappeared again. There was some initial advertising before it left theaters...

Lee: We were never in enough theaters. Not enough money was spent to compete with all the money and the number of theaters the other films had. I think we'll do very well on DVD, and, ironically, we'll do better internationally than we will in the United States. I think it was a missed opportunity. They left a lot of money out there.